00:00:00 Your tape was enthusiastically received and was played to the club on the 10th of December.

00:00:12 Rodeo copies were made and then distributed to certain members.

00:00:17 The first of the four questions dealing with the controversial issues raised by Percy Julian,

00:00:23 and also the question about racial disorders in Mississippi, were then put to the club again,

00:00:30 and full-scale discussion was held on the 7th of January.

00:00:34 And now it gives me pleasure to introduce you to Vice President Fred Rashbrook, who will give a summary of this discussion.

00:00:43 Taking questions one and two together, the views expressed did not support the contention by one of your members

00:00:54 that Rotary was no place for a discussion of controversial questions.

00:00:59 The free expression of thought which was evident in the discussion which arose over these and subsequent questions

00:01:08 made it abundantly clear that there is ample room for a wide range of divergent views within a Rotary Club.

00:01:18 As one member put it, surely the one place for controversial discussion is among friends.

00:01:26 How else can one gain knowledge and experience from this friendship?

00:01:31 Some members, however, did not go all the way with this view, and it was suggested that such discussions should not take place

00:01:41 when the company present included anyone who by virtue of colour, race, creed, or in some instances political attachment,

00:01:52 might only be hurt and not influenced by the views expressed.

00:01:58 This reservation was countered, however, by the member who maintained that this did not apply in Rotary

00:02:07 because Rotarians, generally speaking, did not discuss contentious matters in a small, petty way but objectively.

00:02:17 Thus, to sum up our answers to questions one and two, we say, firstly, that Rotary is indeed a place for controversial discussion,

00:02:28 our own proceedings providing ample proof of this, and secondly, we feel that to kindle the spark of Rotary,

00:02:37 one requires a good draught of fresh air let in by the free exchange of views sincerely expressed on any matter of moment

00:02:47 where the objects of Rotary can be bought to bear with good effect.

00:02:55 On question three, whether Rotary Clubs should have sent a message of deep sadness to Cairo over their action in expelling their Jewish members,

00:03:05 the general discussion failed to produce a decisive call for this course of action.

00:03:12 The fact that a state of war existed between Egypt and Israel did, it was felt, have a marked bearing on how one regarded the situation.

00:03:24 For instance, it was not known whether the Jewish Rotarians were required to leave as a result of a decision taken within the club

00:03:34 or whether it was done as a result of a government directive over which the club had no control.

00:03:42 It was also not known whether the Rotarians expelled were, in fact, Jewish nationals.

00:03:49 If, in fact, they were, it was suggested that this might probably put them in a similar position to a German national in Britain during the last war.

00:04:01 It was further suggested that a more appropriate course of action would be to circularize Rotary Clubs the world over,

00:04:09 focusing attention on the situation in Cairo where a club was not working in accordance with the stated objects of Rotary.

00:04:18 Question four brought us back to President Blahari's challenge to kindle the spark in asking us to put ourselves in the position of a Rotarian in Cairo,

00:04:32 South Africa, or Mississippi, and indicate what we would then consider our duty to be.

00:04:40 The most widely held view on this question was that under these circumstances one should make a stand for Rotary principles.

00:04:50 In Cairo, one would be getting to work through the objects of Rotary and working for peace between Egypt and Israel.

00:04:59 In South Africa and Mississippi, one would be working through Rotary for greater tolerance and understanding in handling the colour problem.

00:05:09 Two individual views were expressed at variance with these sentiments.

00:05:15 One member suggested that before telling other people what to do, we should first put our own house in order,

00:05:23 and quoted as an example the fact that there were a number of golf clubs in this country where Jews were not admitted as members.

00:05:31 Another member maintained that in all three areas mentioned, the issues were political, with deep political passions involved,

00:05:40 and we had no right to tell these people where they got off.

00:05:45 Question 13, which inquired about our reactions to the racial disorders recently experienced at the University of Mississippi,

00:05:55 produced some divergent views on this tragic affair.

00:05:59 There was, however, general agreement that President Kennedy was right in insisting that coloured students were admitted to the university.

00:06:09 It was also felt that however good Rotarians we might wish to be, it was impossible for us to put ourselves in the position of the people on the spot.

00:06:20 We could not fully appreciate the domestic issues involved, and we therefore had no right to sit in judgement on such a matter.

00:06:30 One member asked us to search our own hearts to discover in all honesty how we would feel about taking coloured people to live as one of the family in our own homes.

00:06:43 The answer to this soul-searching was, he felt, at the root of the colour problem the world over.

00:06:51 Other members who had in fact had this experience of giving hospitality to coloured people in their homes were quick to deny that such a situation posed any problem.

00:07:03 The fact that in the disorders at Mississippi whites were attacking blacks was, in our members' view, a sorry state of affairs,

00:07:14 and created the impression that this represented the general attitude of white Americans to the coloured population.

00:07:22 To sum up, the general feeling was that racial disorders of any kind were to be deplored,

00:07:30 and sympathy went out to Americans, both black and white, who found themselves caught up in these violent expressions of what are obviously deep-rooted prejudices.

00:07:44 And now, fellows, this is Mack Worley again. It gives me much pleasure to introduce to you our President for this year, Dr. Freddie Brown.

00:07:56 Individual members have now been invited to give their own personal replies in answer to the queries.

00:08:03 These do not necessarily represent the views of the club.

00:08:09 First, I would like to introduce Rotarian Dr. Grigono, a general medical practitioner.

00:08:16 This is Dr. Grigono answering a question from Norman Anderson about socialised medicine.

00:08:24 The patient-physician relationship as regards ordinary decent people and doctors remained unchanged when the National Health Service was started.

00:08:36 The same persons had, after all, the same objectives as before.

00:08:41 On the other hand, the selfish, demanding, and neurotic minorities have made heavy demands.

00:08:47 The service, as a whole, is perhaps better able to discipline them, by one means or another, to their own benefit, than is an unorganised, fee-taking profession.

00:08:59 Two extremes may be noted. The doctors who are too kind and willing have become more and more overworked, without much financial gain.

00:09:08 Whereas those who enjoy idleness have discovered that this only means that their most demanding and chronically sick patients leave them.

00:09:15 Say 10% of the patients, and 10% of the pay, but perhaps 50% or more of the work.

00:09:23 Very many average and above average citizens and doctors find that the scheme works reasonably well.

00:09:30 The pay is low compared with that in other times, and with that in other contemporary communities.

00:09:38 There are two really sound advantages. First, there's a strong tendency for whole families to remain under the care of one doctor,

00:09:46 whether you call him personal physician, general practitioner, or family doctor, for long continuous periods, broken only by personal episodes in hospital.

00:09:57 The mutual knowledge and affection, often admittedly quite critical affection, which this engenders, are of real value to family, community, and profession.

00:10:07 And secondly, no one is now prevented from seeking medical advice by fear of the doctor's bill.

00:10:13 This is of value particularly to the mothers of young families.

00:10:18 To sum up, the British National Health Service is a very great deal better, for everyone, than is usually believed in America.

00:10:28 I now introduce Geoffrey Lewis, who in addition to giving his own reply, will also give that of Jack Sharma.

00:10:37 As our president told you, this is Geoffrey Lewis answering Bob Mabee's question.

00:10:43 First of all, on the difference between the judicial systems in the United Kingdom and the United States.

00:10:51 I admit that I know very little about American legal procedure. I don't know very much about our own.

00:10:57 All that I do know about American legal procedure seems to have come from watching Perry Mason on the television, and I don't think he's really a valid source of information.

00:11:08 However, I'll tell you something, as little as I know, about the judiciary in our country.

00:11:15 Our legal profession, unlike yours, is divided into two branches, barristers and solicitors.

00:11:24 Except for certain of the lower courts, barristers only are allowed to speak as advocates, and it is only barristers who have any right to become judges.

00:11:36 The appointment of a judge is non-political, except for the Lord Chancellor, who is a member of the government.

00:11:43 And once they are appointed, they keep their appointments until they retire or die.

00:11:50 There is no written British constitution, and much of our law is based on decided cases.

00:11:59 The British judge is very seldom faced with a decision as to whether any act of the government is out of ires, and there is one law covering the whole country, so there is no conflict of law between states.

00:12:14 On the whole, I think our legal system provides a good deal of elasticity, but it does have the disadvantage that decisions, and especially the severity of sentences in criminal cases, can vary according to the temperament of the judge trying the case.

00:12:31 We have a legal aid system which provides poorer people with the services of lawyers, either free of charge or at a very reduced cost.

00:12:42 And now I come to Jack Shermer's answer to the second part of Bob's question.

00:12:50 I hope Jack is not ill. He was supposed to be coming this evening, but he hasn't turned up yet, and we have to get on.

00:12:58 He says,

00:13:29 by means of large down payments, as much as 50% of one period, and limiting the number of years over which the hiring could be spread.

00:13:40 The higher purchase debt at November 1962 was £883 million, which worked out at £17 per head of the population.

00:13:52 In the corresponding month of the previous year, it was £18 per head.

00:13:58 It is agreed, I think, by most, if not all, economists, that the effect of higher purchase is inflationary.

00:14:07 There is, however, a school of thought that a very small amount of inflation each year, providing it can be kept in control, has a beneficial effect on the economy.

00:14:22 Mack Worley will now reply to the question of Jack Kynes, who is unable to be with us tonight.

00:14:31 This is Mack Worley speaking. I am sorry that Jack Kynes is not able to give his own answer, and he has asked me to apologise on his behalf.

00:14:44 Jack Kynes, answering Raleigh L. Schick's question, what knowledge does the average Briton have of the early beginning of America?

00:14:57 I have put your question to Mr Average Briton. He has included a schoolmaster, fellow Rotarian, senior and junior schoolchildren, and people of various age groups and educational standards.

00:15:17 The general conclusion is rather a surprising one. Firstly, there is almost a complete lack of knowledge on the subject of American history before Columbus, and a very limited knowledge post-Columbus.

00:15:35 One 18-year-old schoolboy put your question to his classmates, and he concluded his report back to me, and they could not care less.

00:15:47 A 14-year-old schoolgirl told me that the Negro population had risen to the same level as the white, and how it was a battle between both who was to rule the country.

00:16:03 Looking back over my own school days, I realise that the curriculum was probably English and European history, and I must confess that only a limited number of historical highlights dealing with the British colonisation of America remain with me.

00:16:24 Stories of American history are legend by way of entertainment on film today. To children and adults alike, the Westerns provide a large part of our television programme, and a favourite toy uniform in our shops is a copy of that worn by the soldiers during the American War of Independence.

00:16:45 Knowledge of your history, say, between 18 and 1900, is also sparse, perhaps due to a policy of isolationism conducted by your statesmen during this period.

00:17:01 Coming up to date, the average Briton is most conscious of the contribution America is making to world history, controversial as some may yet prove to be. Summing up, the early history of America does not appear to interest our people.

00:17:20 Now, Cyril Horda.

00:17:50 This, together with obtaining satisfactory terms to protect the largest of our industries, agriculture, would appear to be the reason for the present impasse.

00:18:06 Since the days of the Marshall Plan, the United States has supported the principle of European integration. Like most Europeans, the Americans believed that through economic integration and cooperation, an approach could be made to the far greater problem of Western European political unity in face of the growing menace of Communism.

00:18:30 From what we hear in this country, it is clear that many people in the United States have long realised the dangers, both political and economic, of a protectionist attitude developing among the six.

00:18:42 Dangers not only to America's export trade, but even more important, danger to the poor primary producing countries of Latin America and Asia.

00:18:52 Commendably, the U.S., whilst encouraging the U.K. to join the EEC, in the awareness that with our responsibility to the Commonwealth, we would also want a liberal trading community, has been taking practical measures to liberalise world trade.

00:19:10 Whether or not Britain joins the EEC, it is clear that the immediate effects of the community on American trade will be a weakening of American exports and perhaps a further outflow of capital to establish manufacturing facilities within the community.

00:19:30 Effective bargaining for reciprocal tariff reductions could forestall these results, and America is at advantage in that the trade balance with the EEC is at present very much in her favour.

00:19:42 But the real issue remains the political one, and it seems unlikely that American policy towards Europe can remain the same if Europe, instead of being a partner, assumes antagonistic policies towards the United States.

00:19:57 Finally, I do think if we enter the common market, it will be a stimulus to change our coinage to the decimal system.

00:20:04 This step was in fact envisaged early in the 19th century when a new coin, the flooring, two shilling piece, or one tenth of a pound, was minted.

00:20:14 By a little adjustment, I do not think that we would find this step unsurmountable.

00:20:20 Terry Betts will now give Neville Chappell's reply.

00:20:26 How do members of the Rotary Club of Wansett and Woodford feel about England's entry into the European common market?

00:20:35 What I am about to record will in all probability be out of date by the time our friends of the Franklin Club are playing this tape.

00:20:43 Such is the pace at which events are moving at this present moment.

00:20:47 President de Gaulle has just thrown a large-sized spanner into the works, and the negotiating machinery threatens to grind to a standstill.

00:20:56 Many of us find the attitude of de Gaulle ironical, to say the least, when we recollect the manner of his coming to these shores in 1940 with a handful of French troops to seek our support in the liberation of France.

00:21:09 There is no simple for or against to the question which you have posed.

00:21:15 On the one hand, we feel that in a changing world we cannot stand still.

00:21:20 The world can never be the same, no matter how sentimental we may feel about the good old days.

00:21:27 The problem which faces us is, can Britain stay out of the fast-expanding economic community of Europe and still retain its traditional role of leadership in Europe and in the world?

00:21:39 I think it is fair to say that if we were asked to make a choice between Europe and the Commonwealth, we would tighten our belts, if necessary, and stand by the Commonwealth, that free association of countries which has always rallied to the help of Mother Britain in two world wars.

00:21:57 Please do not confuse the Commonwealth with colonialism.

00:22:01 Although the bonds which unite the Commonwealth through our Queen Elizabeth are loose, the spirit which holds it together springs from a common desire to influence the destiny of the world for good in the fullest democratic sense.

00:22:16 Agriculture is one of the major stumbling blocks in the current negotiations with the European economic community.

00:22:25 We have learned the grim lesson from two world wars that it is essential to preserve our agriculture within this country and also in the Commonwealth at a highly efficient and productive level.

00:22:38 As a result, our farmers receive financial incentives and in some ways are subjudised.

00:22:46 We do not wish to see our lifeline menaced by the elimination of subsidies to our farmers and the possible flooding of our food markets with continental foodstuffs at the expense of the Commonwealth.

00:22:59 I believe that it is on the outcome of these two principal issues, Commonwealth and agriculture, that the final decision depends.

00:23:10 We see the advantages to our commerce of entering into a wider, fast-expanding market.

00:23:16 We see also the dangers of being left outside a free-trading community, almost completely shut out by a high-tariff wall.

00:23:24 But there are certain principles which I believe this country will not surrender.

00:23:29 We admire the negotiating skill of our Chief Negotiator, Mr Edward Heath, and I think I am right in saying that we hope a strong United States of Europe will develop with this country, as ever, playing a leading role.

00:23:44 And may I just mention that our illustrious Honorary Member, Sir Winston Churchill, pleaded for the development of a strong United States of Europe immediately at the close of World War II, in the belief that a third world area would strengthen peace in the future.

00:24:02 How would our entry into the EEC affect the relationship between our two countries?

00:24:10 I believe that the close, almost personal ties which have existed between our countries ever since Christopher Columbus discovered your great continent may, in the political sense, become less personal.

00:24:23 I envisage that the USA would negotiate not with England, France, Germany, etc., as individual nations, but with a Council of the United States of Europe.

00:24:35 This would not, of course, happen for many years until full integration had taken place.

00:24:42 On the commercial side, I have little doubt that our respective industrialists would continue directly to foster trade between our countries.

00:24:52 It could well be that a strong United States of Europe would become a powerful third world force, and by its geographical position be a sort of bridge between East and West.

00:25:05 And I cannot foresee, in the near future, any change in our traditional attachments to the USA as against Russia.

00:25:14 I was recently at a French Rotary Club, and a Frenchman said to me,

00:25:20 There are two things your country must do. Enter the EEC and adopt the decimal system.

00:25:28 Traditions die very slowly, and while we always sympathise with the visitor to our shores who holds out a handful of silver and coppers and says to the shop assistant,

00:25:39 I do not think we would make any early change but for the influence of the common market.

00:25:45 But if we enter the market, then I am equally sure we shall make the change.

00:25:50 There is a Parliamentary Committee already considering all the implications and complications of the change.

00:25:56 The time allotted to me is too short to give you even a decimal fraction of the fun and games we shall encounter in the event of a changeover.

00:26:05 But I have no doubt we will make a success of it when the time comes.

00:26:11 Now, George Burroughs.

00:26:15 I am replying to Herbert Mayer's question on automobile insurance.

00:26:22 I am quite certain that the cost of motor insurances in this country is in general much lower than in the USA.

00:26:32 The problems are probably very similar in that it has become almost impossible to insure at any price whatsoever any driver who has either a bad record or a dangerous or drunken driving conviction.

00:26:49 It is also just as difficult to get insurance for a young, inexperienced driver with a fast sports car.

00:26:58 In England there are two basic types of insurance, third party fire and theft and comprehensive.

00:27:07 Third party is used mainly for the old, non-valuable types of cars and provides insurance for an unlimited amount covering damage to other people and or their property.

00:27:21 The owner's car is only insured against fire and theft.

00:27:27 Comprehensive insurance, in addition to the above, covers the owner's car against damage howsoever caused.

00:27:36 The basis of charging premiums in the UK is, in my opinion, quite crazy.

00:27:44 First and most important factor is the cubic capacity of the engine.

00:27:50 Maybe that's why we have so many small cars.

00:27:55 The second most important factor is where the car is normally garaged.

00:28:00 It doesn't matter where they drive it, it's where it's garaged.

00:28:04 The third factor is the type of use, i.e. private use, business use or business use including travelling to collect orders.

00:28:16 Each grade goes up in price by 25%.

00:28:21 The value of the car has only a very small effect on the premium charged.

00:28:29 Now, the cost of insuring the average British car, i.e. a car of 1,200cc valued at 600 pounds,

00:28:39 varies from 12 pounds for third party in a quiet country district for private use

00:28:47 to 54 pounds for comprehensive use in London for a commercial traveller.

00:28:55 On the same basis, an American Buick valued at, say, 3,000 pounds,

00:29:02 varies in cost from 42 pounds to 150 pounds.

00:29:09 All these premiums can, however, be reduced by a no-claims bonus

00:29:15 and a man who has driven for 80 years without a claim can get a rebate of as much as 50%.

00:29:25 Now, let me introduce Reg Smith.

00:29:30 I'm answering the question posed by Dave Brooke about rotary publicity.

00:29:39 Now, this question interests me because some years ago, when I was club publicity officer,

00:29:49 we tried to thrash out in committee what type of publicity was desirable and commendable

00:29:59 in the best interests of rotary and what rotary stood for.

00:30:08 My recollection is that our conclusions could be briefly summarised as follows.

00:30:18 One, on no account should publicity aim at boosting any individual rotarian's ego.

00:30:32 Two, the duty of the publicity officer is to report the activities of the club

00:30:42 with the object of acquainting the public with the purpose for which rotary exists.

00:30:52 Three, there should be no thought of seeking public recognition, as the question puts it.

00:31:03 Rather, should we hope that members of the public, reading the reports of our activities,

00:31:12 would feel the urge to, quote, go and do likewise, unquote.

00:31:21 Four, we should be careful to avoid giving the impression that rotary is just another charitable institution,

00:31:35 for an obsession with the charitable side of our activities might possibly hinder us

00:31:45 in carrying out to the full the fourfold object of our movement.

00:31:54 Now, in the light of the foregoing, I would answer Dave Brooke's question by saying this.

00:32:05 All publicity which expands the influence and stature of Rotary

00:32:13 within the terms of the fourfold object is good,

00:32:20 but there is a danger of misleading the public concerning our true purpose

00:32:28 if we overemphasize our pecuniary benefactions.

00:32:37 Now, Vic Williams.

00:32:40 In reply to Herschel V. Rowe's education secondary schools question,

00:32:45 in general terms, what is your opinion of education on the pre-college level in your country?

00:32:51 What would you consider to be its strengths and weaknesses?

00:32:56 As you most probably know, secondary education in this country commences at the age of 11 plus

00:33:02 and continues compulsorily for four years, that is to the age of 15 plus.

00:33:08 It is becoming increasingly common for boys and girls who would normally leave

00:33:12 to stay on beyond the minimum leaving age to take the general certificate of education and other examinations.

00:33:19 In the grammar and technical schools, the minimum leaving age is 16 plus,

00:33:24 but many stay on until 18 to take advanced level subjects and seek admission to university or college.

00:33:32 Over the past decade, there has been an experiment in comprehensive education

00:33:37 in which the modern technical and grammar schools are merged into one school.

00:33:42 This has the advantage of giving a very wide syllabus in one establishment

00:33:47 and the elimination of any divisions into different types of schools

00:33:51 with its consequent class consciousness.

00:33:54 It has the disadvantage of great size and complexity of organisation

00:33:58 and the complete impossibility of a head knowing the students as individuals.

00:34:03 Under the tripartite system, the grammar and technical schools cater for about 25% of the age groups concerned,

00:34:10 the modern schools take the rest.

00:34:13 It is questionable as to whether 11 plus is the correct age for this transfer and selection.

00:34:20 Over the past years, the secondary modern schools have tackled their work with great enthusiasm

00:34:25 and are doing a very good job.

00:34:28 They have to deal with 75% of the age group

00:34:31 and year by year the quality of children leaving these schools has improved greatly.

00:34:36 This is evidenced by the attitude of parents to these schools.

00:34:40 In the early days, many were critical and objected to their children going there,

00:34:45 but today this is much more rarely the case.

00:34:48 Both grammar and technical schools work to a very high level.

00:34:53 The grammar schools have all been in existence many years and have a marked tradition.

00:34:58 Some tend to rest on that tradition, but others are quick to experiment and use new techniques.

00:35:04 The technical schools are newer, mainly housed in modern buildings,

00:35:09 and offer both technical and art subjects to university level.

00:35:13 Many parents are today opting for their children to attend these schools instead of grammar schools.

00:35:19 Generally in the schools, there is a tremendous interest in a new approach to teaching,

00:35:24 particularly is this so in mathematics and science.

00:35:28 A weakness of our present system is the lack of university places.

00:35:32 With a general rise in the level of education,

00:35:35 many more students are of the necessary standard for university entry,

00:35:39 and many at present are refused entry because of lack of space.

00:35:44 New universities are being built, but it will be many years before sufficient places are available.

00:35:54 And now, George Dennett.

00:35:57 In reply to Jack Williams on the subject of pharmacists and the National Health Service.

00:36:04 The advent of socialised medicine in this country, without doubt,

00:36:08 brought prosperity to proprietor pharmacists during the first few years of the National Health Service.

00:36:14 But latterly, due to the reductions by the Ministry of Health,

00:36:19 the overall fees received by pharmacists have been considerably less,

00:36:24 and at the present time is causing very great concern in pharmaceutical circles.

00:36:31 With regard to the decrease of personalised customer services,

00:36:35 I would say that at the start of the National Health Service, there was certainly a decrease.

00:36:42 But pharmacists soon realised the importance of this service, and I do not think this obtains today.

00:36:50 Regarding the pharmacists' incentive to expand in more than one location having been curtailed,

00:36:57 I do not think this is so, for I feel sure that the single pharmacy will not survive on its own for long,

00:37:04 having to compete with the supermarkets and price-cutting,

00:37:07 and having to meet the heavy overhead expenses entailed today.

00:37:12 The solution will, I think, be the ownership of three or four shops,

00:37:17 so that purchases of stock may be made on advantageous terms,

00:37:22 or alternatively, pharmacists forming small groups and purchasing collectively,

00:37:28 so that the best terms may be obtained.

00:37:31 Failing this, I think we shall certainly gradually see the single-shop pharmacy disappearing.

00:37:40 Now I'll introduce Alec Escoff.

00:37:43 This is Alec Escoff, answering question number eight, which asks,

00:37:56 may we have some impressions of the American people?

00:38:01 This question, like the first part of question seventeen,

00:38:06 reveals how the American worries too much about what other people think of him,

00:38:12 correspondingly, the average Britisher is so satisfied with himself

00:38:17 that the idea of asking such a question never occurs to him.

00:38:22 Somewhere between these two extremes lies an intelligent attitude.

00:38:28 One can only answer the question honestly in the light of a lifelong interest in international affairs,

00:38:37 since one must judge a people or group by how they act together,

00:38:42 and not by the relatively few individuals one has met.

00:38:47 It would be tempting and easy to do otherwise,

00:38:52 and judge by the delightful Texans my wife and I spend happy hours with in Greece,

00:38:59 or by the sincere and good district governor in California,

00:39:04 with whom we spend happy days both here and there,

00:39:08 or by the sane, balanced, sociable, and highly intelligent young couple I was skiing with in Austria three years ago,

00:39:19 or by the warm-hearted Rotarians in Paso Robles, who were so kind to me,

00:39:25 and who paid me such undeserved compliments,

00:39:28 or by the impressive Rotary Foundation fellowship scholars,

00:39:33 who have given us such a fine impression of American youth at, admittedly, its hand-picked best,

00:39:42 or by the host of attractive, friendly, and sincere people I met in the United States.

00:39:49 But I'm afraid this won't do, although I confess to some difficulty when I approach the question the other way.

00:39:59 What can one say of a people who first bled us white with cash and carry,

00:40:05 whilst we fought the world's battles and theirs,

00:40:08 and then, with martial aid, made amends to us and other nations with a generosity quite new in world affairs?

00:40:19 What can one say about the impressive corruption, commercialism, and vulgarity of American politics?

00:40:27 The ignorance and prejudice about world affairs of many of its prominent politicians,

00:40:33 including senators of the McCarthy stamp,

00:40:37 its selection of an obviously unqualified president to the childish chant of,

00:40:44 on the one hand, and on the other,

00:40:48 its choice of a brilliant and purposeful young president who has the capacity to see world affairs with a clarity of mind

00:40:57 denied to the too-aged but experienced continental European leaders who are clouding present issues?

00:41:06 What of Little Rock, Arkansas, and South Carolina,

00:41:11 where not a single Negro has been admitted to any institution of higher learning?

00:41:17 I wonder if the Statue of Liberty wears a frown over these things.

00:41:22 What of the hypocrisy of Mr. Orville Freeman, Secretary for Agriculture,

00:41:29 whose goals Europe for restrictive trade practices,

00:41:33 whilst the United States shamelessly arrogates to itself virtual dictatorship over the world's shipping,

00:41:42 to the great harm of other and weaker maritime nations that, unlike the United States,

00:41:49 do not employ the shady dodge of flags of convenience?

00:41:55 What about import quotas and tariffs on lead and zinc and their ores,

00:42:00 directed against developing countries like Australia, Canada, Mexico, and Peru,

00:42:07 far more restrictive than anything even proposed by the European economic community,

00:42:13 and all this, mark you, from the richest nation on earth?

00:42:19 What of filibusters and pressure lobbies?

00:42:23 What of magnificent technological progress and application,

00:42:28 contrasted with the widespread delusion that every advance is an American contribution,

00:42:35 including, incidentally, penicillin, radar, television, and jet propulsion,

00:42:42 all of which came from Britain?

00:42:45 In another answer, I have referred to the excellence of American philosophy

00:42:50 and outlook in some aspects, and to its false values in others,

00:42:55 to the horrors of the political system,

00:42:58 and to the kindness and open friendliness of the individual one actually meets.

00:43:04 I might add, too, the kindly interest he takes in you and your affairs,

00:43:09 and his frankness about his own, together with his lack of prejudice,

00:43:14 provided you keep off politics and Negroes.

00:43:18 I could go on, but time and tape forbid.

00:43:23 You will see that, to one observer at least, the American people are a paradox.

00:43:30 Nevertheless, I will conclude by saying that thinking men, which excludes,

00:43:36 alas, many of my compatriots and yours, must be profoundly grateful

00:43:42 that it is into reluctant and often fumbling American hands

00:43:47 that leadership of the free world has been thrust.

00:43:52 I know of no other people better qualified to receive it.

00:44:01 Now, John Gilbert, our first Vice President.

00:44:05 I'm replying to question number eight,

00:44:08 the one you asked about our impressions of the American people.

00:44:13 Ralph E. Bass asked this question,

00:44:16 and he asks for two or three expressions on your impressions of the American people.

00:44:22 A few expressions can be so misleading,

00:44:26 not only for those items that are selected,

00:44:29 but perhaps even more by what is left out.

00:44:32 Comments that come then immediately to mind,

00:44:35 in no order of importance or of subject,

00:44:38 and they relate, I must admit, almost exclusively to New York.

00:44:44 These impressions, overwhelming generous hospitality,

00:44:49 a strangely mixed super-efficiency and inefficiency,

00:44:54 spotlessly clean eating facilities,

00:44:58 enormous portions with consequent waste of food,

00:45:02 and the food almost tasteless.

00:45:05 An enthusiastic devotion to the American way of life in other states,

00:45:11 with an amazing and disturbing ignorance of how the rest of the world really lives.

00:45:17 The American people's apparent inability to eat, travel, shop, drink,

00:45:24 or even converse without loud background music.

00:45:30 Clean, fast, punctual, well-equipped long-distance trains,

00:45:35 but the dirtiest, worst sign-posted subway we've ever travelled on,

00:45:40 and we've travelled all over Europe.

00:45:43 Individually, wonderfully friendly and uninhibited,

00:45:48 but overwhelming in the mass.

00:45:51 Now, while I'm talking, I might as well too reply,

00:45:55 as they've asked me to, to question number six,

00:45:59 which was asked on international student exchange.

00:46:04 There is no project, no venture, to whatever end,

00:46:09 that can hope to be 100% perfect.

00:46:13 However sincere our efforts and however altruistic our aims,

00:46:17 perfection is just not possible.

00:46:20 Accepting this, and with it the fact that in some cases

00:46:24 of past international student exchange,

00:46:27 there have been failures and difficulties,

00:46:30 and that there inevitably will be again,

00:46:33 I've no hesitation in expressing my conviction

00:46:37 that these exchanges make a very material contribution

00:46:41 to the useful knowledge and appreciation of the lives and outlook

00:46:45 of the peoples of both of the countries involved in such exchanges.

00:46:50 The benefits are twofold.

00:46:53 The visiting student sees, hears, experiences,

00:46:57 and absorbs the way of life of the country he's gone to,

00:47:01 and gives to those he meets something of his own background and character.

00:47:06 His home state gains in ever-increasing amount,

00:47:10 and for long after his return,

00:47:12 the intimate knowledge and awareness he has culled during his visit.

00:47:17 Any such visitor always remembers the places, the people,

00:47:22 and the pattern of life he's seen,

00:47:24 but perhaps even more significantly,

00:47:26 he retains an especial interest thereafter in these things.

00:47:31 News reports, films, magazine articles,

00:47:35 all register so much more,

00:47:37 and help too to keep him up to date within the happenings since he was there,

00:47:42 and this is transmitted in varying degree to his compatriots.

00:47:46 Political events, progress or catastrophe,

00:47:50 social changes, all mean so much more to him,

00:47:53 and are discussed more knowledgably among his community because of this.

00:47:59 International students of the caliber of Rotary Foundation fellows,

00:48:04 with their outstanding prospects of future achievement,

00:48:07 must surely have inconsiderable measure,

00:48:10 the ability to make the most of the opportunity,

00:48:13 and in later years, to be in a position to pass on their knowledge and opinions

00:48:18 to others most effectively.

00:48:21 I'm confident that if we could precisely assess their value,

00:48:25 the international student exchanges would bear heavily on the credit side,

00:48:30 to those visited, to the visitor, and to his fellow countrymen.

00:48:38 As Lewis West is unable to be present tonight,

00:48:42 I will read his reply.

00:48:46 A visit to the British Isles at any time of the year

00:48:50 can be both interesting and enjoyable,

00:48:53 especially if London is selected as the centre.

00:48:57 However, the best time during which to enjoy its scenery,

00:49:01 beauty and climate is from late May to mid July.

00:49:05 This represents six or seven weeks

00:49:08 out of what is considered five months of summer.

00:49:12 Past records show that the weather is usually at its best

00:49:17 during this short period,

00:49:19 and also, it must be remembered that as June the 24th is the longest day,

00:49:25 a holiday taken at that time will give the maximum amount of daylight hours

00:49:31 in which to enjoy the beauties of the countryside

00:49:34 when returning from day visits to places such as Stratford-on-Avon,

00:49:39 Oxford, Lennon Palace, Cambridge,

00:49:43 and many other places of beauty and historical importance.

00:49:48 London is used by the overseas visitor as a centre for entertainment.

00:49:54 Conducted tours by coach leave London daily for all places of interest.

00:50:00 The visitor has to leave London, however,

00:50:03 to see the most beautiful parts of the country.

00:50:06 Visits to Edinburgh, the Scottish Highlands, the Lake District,

00:50:10 Snowdonia and the Welsh Valleys and Ireland are all worthwhile.

00:50:15 The British Isles have such a lot to offer the overseas visitor,

00:50:19 especially to the many Americans who have distant but close ties with us.

00:50:26 And now, here is Eric A. Scott back again to answer a further question.

00:50:33 This is Eric A. Scott answering question number 17,

00:50:39 which asks first,

00:50:41 Do the accounts brought back by British visitors to the United States encourage people to go there?

00:50:49 I don't really think that they make much difference.

00:50:53 Keen travellers willing, or at any rate able, to travel great distances are proportionately fewer here.

00:51:01 In part this stems from the fact that we are less venturesome,

00:51:05 but it is probably mainly due to our relative poverty compared with the richest nation on earth.

00:51:12 Those that are keen are put off by the high cost of food and hotels and the expensive journey,

00:51:20 which alone rules out visits to the United States for most people here.

00:51:25 Because of its power, influence, progressive ideas and wealth,

00:51:32 not to mention its lack of any excessive modesty,

00:51:36 the United States gets so much worldwide publicity that for many that would like to go,

00:51:42 the returning traveller can only fill in some interesting detail,

00:51:47 any stimulating effect of which may well be offset by the inevitable references to prices,

00:51:55 which to us seem not merely high, but on an entirely different scale.

00:52:02 Even the invariable accounts of American hospitality and kindness evoke in the sensitive

00:52:10 the fear of not being able to reciprocate on a comparable scale.

00:52:17 I'm not sure what is meant by in what order are the high and low points of their opinions.

00:52:25 If it means does the average traveller commend most or condemn most,

00:52:32 I can only answer that it depends entirely on the traveller's background and outlook,

00:52:38 and, I fear, preconceived judgments.

00:52:42 Adding that I don't know enough people who visited the United States

00:52:47 to be able to give an answer of any great value.

00:52:50 Most people say it's a wonderful and interesting country, but I should hate to live there.

00:52:57 My own personal reaction is to commend much more than to condemn,

00:53:02 but my outlook is by no means typical.

00:53:05 If, on the other hand, the question is seeking for a list of things that appeal

00:53:11 and things that repel, stated in order of importance,

00:53:15 I think very few could answer it properly.

00:53:18 Here are a few points at random.

00:53:21 Favourable ones.

00:53:24 First, natural and spontaneous friendliness, kindness, and hospitality

00:53:30 on a scale not met elsewhere in my limited experience.

00:53:36 Second, a dynamic, forward-looking outlook coupled with a faith

00:53:41 that the way to make things better is to get up and do something about them.

00:53:47 Third, a readiness to judge a person by what he or she is and does,

00:53:54 provided, of course, that the colour of the skin is not black.

00:53:58 Fourth, the habit of thinking and acting in a big way,

00:54:02 undeterred by the magnitude of a problem.

00:54:06 Turning to unfavourable ones, first, false values,

00:54:12 as expressed by the worship of the almighty dollar

00:54:15 and rubbed in by the infuriating habit of travel guides

00:54:20 of mentioning always, and generally first, the cost of everything.

00:54:26 The same falsity is implicit in the belief that it is not necessary

00:54:31 to be educated, only to be able to appear so,

00:54:35 the appearance thus being of more importance than the reality.

00:54:40 It is apparently fundamental to American advertising as, for example,

00:54:46 in, it's smart to do so and so, or to own this or that gadget.

00:54:53 Second, the odd idea that everything new is better,

00:54:58 which is just about as damn silly as our idea that everything old is better.

00:55:05 Third, an incredibly commercialised and corrupt political system,

00:55:11 coupled with ignorance and great intolerance in political matters,

00:55:16 even among, for example, congressmen.

00:55:22 The second part of question 17 asks if we are seeing discount stores spring up

00:55:30 and if they are threatening retail traders.

00:55:34 The answer is yes, they are beginning to be established here,

00:55:39 although more, I believe, in the sphere of the so-called consumer durables

00:55:46 than in that of ladies' wear,

00:55:49 which I should expect here to be less vulnerable to this sort of trading

00:55:55 than other commodities.

00:55:57 Our ladies are quite willing to get a washing machine on cheap,

00:56:01 but would hate anybody to think that they got their clothes that way.

00:56:06 Resale price maintenance, in which virtually all small

00:56:12 and probably most big traders believe, is in the balance here

00:56:17 and may well be gone within a few years, as I think it has in the States.

00:56:24 Discount stores are already challenging it in certain fields,

00:56:29 as supermarkets have done successfully in others.

00:56:33 Most of my company's business is in retail trade,

00:56:38 but one has to recognize that fundamental changes in methods of distribution

00:56:44 may not necessarily be harmful to the economy of a country as a whole,

00:56:49 although bitterly resented by those that suffer through such changes

00:56:54 and are not able or willing to alter their methods.

00:56:58 My own view, however, is that if we ultimately reach the position

00:57:03 that sales are not accompanied by display or service,

00:57:07 the short-sighted consumer who has brought that situation about

00:57:12 will have to pay for these functions in some other ways.

00:57:16 For example, the cost of service may have to be added by the manufacturer,

00:57:21 while the discount store may be forced into display

00:57:25 when it has displaced the retail traders from whom, in effect,

00:57:30 it is now stealing the fruits of display.

00:57:34 We shall then be back where we started from,

00:57:37 with much needless disruption and distress en route.

00:57:47 Here's George Burrows back again to give you his views of the States.

00:57:52 Hello again. My experience of visiting the States is ancient history.

00:57:58 I visited all the East Coast of the USA many times in 1928, 29, and again in 1930,

00:58:07 i.e. just before and just after the Wall Street crash.

00:58:11 In those days I was young and impressionable.

00:58:15 I had spent some eight to ten years traveling around the world.

00:58:19 Never have I encountered such real, genuine hospitality and friendliness.

00:58:25 Where do I remember arriving at Yonkers,

00:58:28 a little place some 20 miles up the Hudson River north of New York?

00:58:33 There I got a cab to take me to a radio shop to buy a cheap second-hand set.

00:58:39 The driver was fascinated by the thought that here was a real live British officer of a ship.

00:58:46 He stayed with me. He helped me to get the set at way below the price asked.

00:58:52 He took me back to my ship, had a drink with me,

00:58:56 then off back again to his house to meet his wife and family.

00:59:01 That is real hospitality.

00:59:04 Also, I remember coming back after the Wall Street crash

00:59:08 and finding it difficult to realize that this was the same nation.

00:59:13 No longer the wild go-getters, but a frightened people who wondered just what had hit them.

00:59:20 The spirit of kindness and friendliness was still there, however.

00:59:24 And to me, the USA will always remain one of the most pleasant of the many countries I have visited.

00:59:36 At our meeting on February the 4th,

00:59:39 there was a further full-scale club discussion dealing with the final question about the Cuban crisis.

00:59:47 And I will now ask Fred Raskrook to summarize this discussion.

00:59:55 In discussing the question which concerns various aspects of America's action over the Cuban crisis,

01:00:03 it was decided to deal with this in three parts.

01:00:07 Firstly, members were asked to express their views on President Kennedy's action in dealing with the situation.

01:00:15 Here, in the main, they endorsed the President's handling of what was undoubtedly a severe test of courage and judgment.

01:00:24 They felt, on looking back, that he was right in doing what he did,

01:00:29 but if it had not worked out, he would have been wrong in the eyes of the rest of the world.

01:00:35 It was recalled that when President Kennedy's action was first made known,

01:00:42 there was a strong reaction among many people in this country that they did not want to get dragged into a war by America.

01:00:50 There was a feeling that in attempting to set up bases in Cuba,

01:00:54 Russia was merely doing something America had already done herself within striking distance of Soviet territory.

01:01:04 One speaker suggested that Khrushchev's preoccupation with Red China

01:01:09 may have been to some extent responsible for his decision to back down over Cuba.

01:01:15 Summing up, the predominant feeling was that with many lesser nations dependent upon America in matters of defense,

01:01:24 she should be in a position to do what she considers right when danger threatens.

01:01:30 As events had transpired, she had been right about her action over Cuba.

01:01:37 The next question put to the club over the Cuban crisis was,

01:01:41 do we agree with the present continued economic blockade of Cuba?

01:01:47 On this aspect of the matter, there was a strong body of opinion expressed which questioned the wisdom of this policy.

01:01:55 Whilst it was obviously necessary that Castro should not be allowed to develop a dangerous situation unchecked,

01:02:02 it was felt by several speakers that the continuation of the blockade would tend to harden the situation

01:02:10 and might serve to needle the Cubans into seeking more Russian support.

01:02:15 As one speaker put it, it will increase their sense of unity in the face of adversity and make them martyrs to the cause.

01:02:25 It was pointed out that one effect of the blockade had been to put up the price of sugar in this country.

01:02:32 In other words, America's action was directly affecting our food supplies

01:02:38 because Cuba was one of the biggest sugar-producing countries in the world.

01:02:43 The fact that the blockade was no doubt also affecting food supplies in Cuba

01:02:49 was stressed by another member who asked,

01:02:52 can a rotary club support anything which is going to deprive anybody of food?

01:02:58 On this thought-provoking note, we left the question of the Cuban blockade

01:03:03 with a general body of members obviously far from happy about the possible results of this course of action by America.

01:03:12 The third question put to the members arising out of the Cuban crisis was,

01:03:17 do we think President Kennedy did right in acting as he did without consulting his allies?

01:03:23 It was obvious from the views expressed in answer to this question

01:03:28 that the club were not going to speak with one voice on it.

01:03:32 Some members wholeheartedly endorsed the view that President Kennedy did what was his duty and did it magnificently.

01:03:41 Others, however, were far from happy about it,

01:03:44 and it was suggested that America was only concerned with looking after herself

01:03:49 and had behaved recklessly in acting as she did without consulting her allies,

01:03:54 thus showing a lack of loyalty to them.

01:03:58 If things had gone wrong, a war of terrible magnitude could have resulted,

01:04:03 and this was a risk which America should not have taken on her own.

01:04:09 Some speakers were uneasy at the prospect of America acting similarly in the future

01:04:14 and perhaps failing to get away with it next time.

01:04:19 Countering this charge of self-concern on the part of America,

01:04:23 the view was expressed that America had grown up in her handling of international affairs

01:04:29 and could be relied upon to assist with all the means at her disposal

01:04:34 any of the NATO countries which might be threatened.

01:04:38 Summing up on this question, it would seem that whilst we admire President Kennedy's swift

01:04:44 and accurate appraisal of the situation and the success which crowned his actions,

01:04:50 we in Britain do not take kindly to being put in a position

01:04:54 where we have no say in the control of our own destiny.

01:05:00 I now send you the farewell greetings from our club,

01:05:05 and I assure you that now we will be getting out our questions for you to answer.